Comments on: The Holy Ghost is to Our Spirits What the Sun is to the Earth http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/ ...declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea, even the Holy Ghost. Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:20:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Jared http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-390 Jared Mon, 01 Sep 2008 02:07:28 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-390 Delirious I sent you an email. Delirious

I sent you an email.

]]> By: Delirious http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-373 Delirious Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:33:33 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-373 Sorry to bother you, but I can't get the address to email mormonblogs.org to add my blog to the list. Not sure why, but when I click on the "email us" it won't let me. Do you happen to have the email address? Thanks! Sorry to bother you, but I can’t get the address to email mormonblogs.org to add my blog to the list. Not sure why, but when I click on the “email us” it won’t let me. Do you happen to have the email address? Thanks!

]]> By: Spektator http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-369 Spektator Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:53:26 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-369 Approaching the Lord with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, as defined in 2 Nephi 2:7, is found in several places which are pertinent to our development of a relationship with Christ. In Moroni 6, the same phrase is used as a prerequisite to membership in His church through being "received unto baptism and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost." It states in 3 Nephi 12:1 that it is Christ, himself, that will baptize us with fire and the Holy Ghost for a remission of our sins. I have come to believe that the call to repent and come unto me is a call to be sanctified by that same dual baptism. I have often marveled at the promise found in D&C 88:68 relative to this sanctification: "Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will." Jared, I, too, base my belief on personal experience. Many years ago, I found myself in a crisis. Seeking the Lord with a heavy heart, I was blessed with the most extraordinary experience of my entire life. I felt as though I had been washed clean and had the most incredible joy and peace come to me. This lasted for days after my encounter. It was not for many years that I was able to discern what had happened to me. I now can speak with some limited understanding of what is meant in the scriptures regarding this type of experience. If people could truly understand what joy could be had, there would me a lot more striving to reach for that promise. As such, I believe that most members are being shortchanged by the current watered down version. In a broader sense, if the gospel is indeed defined in terms of the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost (D&C 33:11-12, D&C 39:6), then I believe the change being preached from the podium at general conference is tantamount to rejecting the gospel. I am sure that I am taking this further than you can absorb. I have worked to bring some structure to all the scriptural references regarding the gospel, baptism, the church, and the Gentiles. I can't see any other way that the scriptures fit together. Of course, your mileage may vary... Approaching the Lord with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, as defined in 2 Nephi 2:7, is found in several places which are pertinent to our development of a relationship with Christ. In Moroni 6, the same phrase is used as a prerequisite to membership in His church through being “received unto baptism and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

It states in 3 Nephi 12:1 that it is Christ, himself, that will baptize us with fire and the Holy Ghost for a remission of our sins. I have come to believe that the call to repent and come unto me is a call to be sanctified by that same dual baptism.

I have often marveled at the promise found in D&C 88:68 relative to this sanctification:

“Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.”

Jared, I, too, base my belief on personal experience. Many years ago, I found myself in a crisis. Seeking the Lord with a heavy heart, I was blessed with the most extraordinary experience of my entire life. I felt as though I had been washed clean and had the most incredible joy and peace come to me. This lasted for days after my encounter.

It was not for many years that I was able to discern what had happened to me. I now can speak with some limited understanding of what is meant in the scriptures regarding this type of experience. If people could truly understand what joy could be had, there would me a lot more striving to reach for that promise. As such, I believe that most members are being shortchanged by the current watered down version.

In a broader sense, if the gospel is indeed defined in terms of the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost (D&C 33:11-12, D&C 39:6), then I believe the change being preached from the podium at general conference is tantamount to rejecting the gospel.

I am sure that I am taking this further than you can absorb. I have worked to bring some structure to all the scriptural references regarding the gospel, baptism, the church, and the Gentiles. I can’t see any other way that the scriptures fit together. Of course, your mileage may vary…

]]> By: Jared http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-368 Jared Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:32:32 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-368 Spektator-great questions. From my perspective I reflect on the scripture where we're taught the Savior doesn't employee any servants there (the gate) for certain aspects of our relationship with Him (2 Nep 9:41). When a member of the church offers up a broken heart and a contrite spirit to the Lord then the Lord extends the blessings of the atonement to some degree (2 Nep 2:7). This, I believe is being born again, by receiving the 2nd baptism of fire. I've experienced this, but didn't entirely understand the doctrine at the time. I have mixed reactions to the lack of focus on this. I wish the GA would talk more about it. Yet, I feel that too much attention on this doctrine can lead to frustration for church members. When I think about how the Book of Mormon prophets/writers describe their experiences I think those who receive this blessing are given a gift to be able to access Heavenly Father in mighty prayer, which makes it possible to receive the 2nd baptism. I really wonder if a person can one day decide their going to seek for this blessing, and then set up some plan to obtain it in a specific time period. It may be crisis driven-meaning a person needs to have a life crisis of some kind to drive them to their knees. My experience with the 2nd baptism was crisis driven so that is the way I think about it. I would like to learn from others who have experienced this gift and learn what brought it about in their life. Teaching that it is a long process for most members is a save position to take for the GA. I leave it in their hands. The Book of Mormon seems to teach both dramatic and progressive access to this blessing. The Lord provides the GA's with the inspiration to fulfill their callings, but I am also responsible to the Lord to appropriately bear testimony of my experience with these things. There is a lot to be said on this subject. Spektator-great questions.

From my perspective I reflect on the scripture where we’re taught the Savior doesn’t employee any servants there (the gate) for certain aspects of our relationship with Him (2 Nep 9:41). When a member of the church offers up a broken heart and a contrite spirit to the Lord then the Lord extends the blessings of the atonement to some degree (2 Nep 2:7). This, I believe is being born again, by receiving the 2nd baptism of fire. I’ve experienced this, but didn’t entirely understand the doctrine at the time.

I have mixed reactions to the lack of focus on this. I wish the GA would talk more about it. Yet, I feel that too much attention on this doctrine can lead to frustration for church members.

When I think about how the Book of Mormon prophets/writers describe their experiences I think those who receive this blessing are given a gift to be able to access Heavenly Father in mighty prayer, which makes it possible to receive the 2nd baptism. I really wonder if a person can one day decide their going to seek for this blessing, and then set up some plan to obtain it in a specific time period. It may be crisis driven-meaning a person needs to have a life crisis of some kind to drive them to their knees.

My experience with the 2nd baptism was crisis driven so that is the way I think about it. I would like to learn from others who have experienced this gift and learn what brought it about in their life.

Teaching that it is a long process for most members is a save position to take for the GA. I leave it in their hands. The Book of Mormon seems to teach both dramatic and progressive access to this blessing. The Lord provides the GA’s with the inspiration to fulfill their callings, but I am also responsible to the Lord to appropriately bear testimony of my experience with these things.

There is a lot to be said on this subject.

]]> By: spektator http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-367 spektator Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:48:03 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-367 I caught your post on the topic on mormonmatters. I know from earlier discussion that you and I share some perspective on the importance of second baptism. Unfortunately, the prevailing wisdom of the church seems to point to this baptism being the result of imperceptibe changes over a lifetime of righteous living. I do have a couple questions for you What is, in your mind, the potential impact of the lack of focus on this by the church? What are the personal implications of accepting the idea of the baptism of fire being a long process? I caught your post on the topic on mormonmatters. I know from earlier discussion that you and I share some perspective on the importance of second baptism. Unfortunately, the prevailing wisdom of the church seems to point to this baptism being the result of imperceptibe changes over a lifetime of righteous living.

I do have a couple questions for you

What is, in your mind, the potential impact of the lack of focus on this by the church?

What are the personal implications of accepting the idea of the baptism of fire being a long process?

]]> By: Jared http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-366 Jared Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:39:04 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-366 Spektator-thanks for your comment. I agree 100%. I marvel at the variety of ways the Lord uses to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children. Spektator-thanks for your comment. I agree 100%. I marvel at the variety of ways the Lord uses to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children.

]]> By: Spektator http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/2008/08/the-holy-ghost-is-to-our-spirits-what-the-sun-is-to-the-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-365 Spektator Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:48:36 +0000 http://www.ldsaliveinchrist.com/?p=123#comment-365 Jared, While Alma and the people of King Benjamin are two examples of the righteous being blessed with the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, there are also examples in the Book of Mormon of people who were either fighting against God (Alma) or not identified as righteous (300 Lamanites in Helaman chapter 5). It seems that the Lord can pick anyone who meets His needs to receive this rebirth. The bible also carries this contrast as one looks at the experience of Cornelius, who had been fasting for 4 days. Saul, on the other hand, gets visited in the middle of a trip to persecute the followers of Christ. While the righteous have the examples of Enos, we must recognize that God may call an Alma to meet his needs also. Jared,
While Alma and the people of King Benjamin are two examples of the righteous being blessed with the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, there are also examples in the Book of Mormon of people who were either fighting against God (Alma) or not identified as righteous (300 Lamanites in Helaman chapter 5). It seems that the Lord can pick anyone who meets His needs to receive this rebirth.

The bible also carries this contrast as one looks at the experience of Cornelius, who had been fasting for 4 days. Saul, on the other hand, gets visited in the middle of a trip to persecute the followers of Christ.

While the righteous have the examples of Enos, we must recognize that God may call an Alma to meet his needs also.

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